248 - Janina Fisher - Spilling Tea Over TikTok Diagnoses, Evidence-Based Therapies, and the Ever-Evolving Nature of Trauma Therapy
“People suffer not because of their biology, not because of their infantile fantasies; they suffer because real things happen to them.” - Janina Fisher
It’s not every day that I get to chat with a pioneer in the trauma field, so gimme a moment to geek out over Janina Fisher, Ph.D. the esteemed psychotherapist, consultant, trainer, and author. She’s an international expert on the treatment of trauma, best known for her work on integrating mindfulness-based and somatic interventions into trauma treatment and an absolute legend.
Janina dispenses some wisdom during our conversation regarding the ever-evolving study of trauma,TikTok diagnoses, and therapists doing their own work (!). She also spills tea all over capitalism’s outsized devotion to evidence-based therapies. I’m here for all of it!
“In the 90s, something like incest was considered distressing [but] not trauma. Then there was an interval where sexual abuse was considered traumatic, but physical abuse wasn't,” Janina says. That’s only 30-ish years ago! “And the idea that emotional abuse could also be traumatic if the result is the child grows up feeling unsafe,” she adds, “that’s an even newer concept.”
Antiquated thinking aside, therapists need to acknowledge––for better, for worse––the external forces exerting unbearable amounts of pressure on our field in this century: post-pandemic fatigue, social justice concerns, private equity financing, AI, therapeutic protocols created by corporate bureaucracies, and self-diagnosis via social media (i.e., ADHD TikTok). It’s no wonder therapists are constantly navigating “what’s next” before they’ve ever had the chance to metabolize “what now?” The antidote is two-fold. “We need more therapists. We need them to make enough money to take care of themselves, nurture themselves,” acknowledges Janina. “We also need [therapists] to be better at what they do.”
I’ll translate that last bit for you: do the work! Get a therapist for the personal stuff, even if you don’t think you have personal stuff to deal with. Get a supervising therapist for the professional stuff, even if you have the education, experience, and grit to forego the guidance. Why? I refer you back to the previous paragraph and the rapid nature of change in the 21st century. Janina and I aren’t calling you out if you don’t have a support system in place. Instead, we’re calling you into a more holistic way of being and doing.
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GUEST CONTACT AND BIO
Janina Fisher, Ph.D., is a licensed clinical psychologist and international expert on the treatment of trauma. She's the author of Healing the Fragmented Selves of Trauma Survivors, overcoming Self Alienation, transforming the Living Legacy of Trauma, a workbook for survivors and therapists, and the Living Legacy instructional flip chart. She's best known for her work on integrating mindfulness based and somatic inter interventions into trauma treatment.
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